Comments on: Leading in Finances

By: Joshua Bovis

Joshua Bovis — Thu, 29 Nov 2012 03:12:31 +0000

Phil,
Thankyou for your thoughtful article on a subject that is very relevant. But your comments pertaining to mothers going back to paid employment I find rather concerning.
Firstly, It seems that you are implying that:
a) If a woman goes back to paid employment and it is not financially necessary then she is guilty of trying to find a sense of worth and contentment outside of knowing Christ which is therefore idolatry.
b) If a woman refuses to go back to paid employment to stay home with children then this is clear evidence of her deriving contentment and worth from Chris which shows she is not committing idolatry
In this schema is there any room for the notion that the ‘mothers of our children’ who are going back to paid employment (regardless of whether it is financially necessary) are doing so with their contentment and worth (which comes from knowing and serving Christ) still fully intact?
As you rightly point out, mothers going back to paid employment is certainly not a sin, and whether it is financially necessary or not still does not make it a sin. So to ask why the ‘mothers of our children are going back to paid employment is not appropriate. Surely that is matter between her and her family and the Lord Jesus?
My concern your comments may not be helpful to our sisters in Christ.
I look forward to your response?

By: Ian R I Cox

Ian R I Cox — Thu, 29 Nov 2012 00:59:19 +0000

I would like comments on how self-funded retirees are to handle their substantial funds. Keep enough to live on for the next 3? 5? 10? 20? years and give away the balance, or leave it for their children to use (pay off house mortgages, etc).

By: Jared Lidgerwood

Jared Lidgerwood — Wed, 28 Nov 2012 08:12:44 +0000

Natalie,

That’s very interesting. I think the issue of whether both parents in a family should work is interesting. I think a generation or two ago, people were excited about having the choice to work. If you were a woman with a family, there often wasn’t anywhere that would employ you, so when that started changing, women were delighted that they had the freedom to go to work.

These days, the ‘freedom’ is gone because women don’t feel they have the choice to stay at home, or if they do they’re looked down upon as neglecting the needs of their children.

It’s even worse for single parents (most of whom are women), because they have the choice of staying at home with the kiddies and getting the label ‘dole-bludger’, or they can go to work and feel like they’re being judged for not loving their kids enough. My mum was a working single mum and felt immense pressure because she saw other mums spending more time with their kids, but was far too proud to ever consider living off Centrelink.

How do single Christian parents live up the unachievable standard we’ve accidentally created while talking about the benefits of having a nuclear family?

By: Matt

Matt — Tue, 27 Nov 2012 23:05:46 +0000

Very good article!
Only one thing missing in the list at the end of radical discipleship: as well as our practical response including things like contentment, thankfulness, generosity etc., there also needs to be the heading “Holiness”.

Christians would look very different in our consumerist western society if we were living obedient and holy lives.

Unfortuanately this is rarely preached. Too many preachers are worried about being misunderstood as preaching law not grace. Sadly, Christians today indulge in many things of this world that were unthinkable for Christians even 30 years ago.

If we were living holy lives ( aka Godly lives) I am sure this would make a difference with increasing the generosity levels of believers. Not only in finances but, more importantly, Christians not afraid to attempt soul-winning in areas like the workplace.

John Wesley preached on Holiness not Legalism. It can be found here..

http://endtimepilgrim.org/holiness.htm

God Bless,
Matt

By: Leslie Miller

Leslie Miller — Tue, 27 Nov 2012 00:17:07 +0000

On average the American mortage is 2.5 to 3 times their annual salary. In Australia it is 8 times their annual salary.
Mortage stress is much more real, and because of stamp duty it is much more costly to sell and then buy again. I grew up with financial teaching being a part of the church culture. We were taught not to buy houses until we could put down 20%. We were taught to have 6 mo. of living expenses in liquid assests. And we were taught in churches not to allow housing costs to exceed 30% of total income. I get that the Bible doesn’t say this, and while we pretty much live this way here (we rent!) it would not be easy for most of our wonderful Christian friends because it would mean a radical change in lifestyle which doesn’t mean just car downgrades and less trendy clothes. It would mean school changes, friend changes, church changes.

There needs to be good financial planning materials coming from churches or para church organizations in Australia. The American ones really are geared for an American situation, and financial wisdom there and financial wisdom here, in light of different social and political realities, differ.

By: Dan

Dan — Mon, 26 Nov 2012 15:28:57 +0000

As with many of the elements of prudent financial stewardship, the element of home ownership or having a “massive proportion of people’s wealth tied up in their home” as the article puts it, is not necessarily a simple one. In many US markets, the cost per square foot to rent a house is the same or even more than the cost to buy a comparable house. In such areas (and all other things being equal), it would then be foolish to forgo the opportunity to accrue real estate equity simply to avoid having a large proportion of one’s net worth tied up in a house. There are certainly other factors to consider, but home ownership, in and of itself, is not an unqualified indication of poor financial stewardship.

By: Is My Giving Weighed And Found Wanting? « Geoff Chapman

Is My Giving Weighed And Found Wanting? « Geoff Chapman — Mon, 26 Nov 2012 10:08:45 +0000

[...] wonderful, challenging post about our attitude to finance and giving over at Matthias Media here: http://matthiasmedia.com/briefing/2012/11/leading-in-finances , I would highly recommend reading [...]

By: Geoff Chapman

Geoff Chapman — Mon, 26 Nov 2012 10:02:39 +0000

Phil, thank you for a wonderful article! I just want to say “Amen”.

By: Dannii

Dannii — Mon, 26 Nov 2012 09:07:49 +0000

I think more discretion with the example numbers used in this article could have been wise. $65K/month is far out of reach for churches in my area of Australia — many of your international readers probably couldn’t even conceive of such cash flow.

This article is good though. But your radical discipleship is missing one more thing: the reminder that we’re part of God’s mission. There are over 7000 unreached people groups, representing 2.89 billion people. What are we doing for the Shaikh people, 217 million people, none of them Christian?

I wonder if our churches need to adjust their mission budgets to take our mission more seriously. Maybe that might help convict the average Christian.

Sources: http://www.joshuaproject.net http://www.joshuaproject.net/peoples.php?peo3=18084

By: Natalie Swann

Natalie Swann — Mon, 26 Nov 2012 08:21:31 +0000

I thought this was a really great reflection on money – I particularly found the calls to a radical contentment and to radical generosity compelling. I offer this reflection in the spirit of having reasons for my disagreement encouraged by Phil.

If i’m going to be completely honest, my feathers were ruffled right at the end with the comments about “the mothers of our children” returning to work.

I wholeheartedly agree that if children are neglected in Christian households for the sake of greed and a desire to live ‘over-comfortably’ there’s a problem.

But the same heart problem exists in households where dads work overtime and mums are left holding the baby and doing all the parenting.

The model of mothers doing parenting at home while fathers work for a salary is historically pretty new. In agrarian societies, including biblical ones, women worked the fields to put food on the table.

There’s lots to praise about women being in the workforce – and the changes in our community’s attitudes towards women and their contribution that have made that possible.

Contemporary workplace relations (maternity leave, paternity leave, part-time flexibility in some sectors/roles) means that parents can share income raising and child raising in ways that have been almost impossible in recent history.

I know one beautiful christian couple who work the equivalent of one full time job between them, share care for their family and both give generously to the community.

Surely we could embrace what is positive about the opportunities for women to earn income and still be counter cultural?

What if both mums and dads turned their back on career advancement and learnt to be content with less workplace ‘sense of worth’. Imagine a generation of kids raised with more available dads. Imagine the impact Christian men could make at church and in the community if they didn’t have to work full time. And what changes could be made to workplaces with the expertise of Christian mothers on staff.